Hardball on Rumsfeld and the Iraq War
Hardball, MSNBC
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: When our civilians at the Defense Department put together the battle plan to go into Iraq, they were thinking — what — they were thinking that the people were going to greet us with open arms as liberators, they were going to help take over their own country quickly. There wasn't going to be an insurgency.
What was the reality that you were addressed with when you went in there?
LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR (RET.), NBC MILITARY ANALYST: That's exactly right. The military went in there under the assumption that the center of gravity, the military target, was going to be the Republican Guard. We'd fire tanks and artillery, put airplanes on them, and that the political center of gravity was going to be Baghdad, and that the Shiites in the south were going to welcome us. And the Sunnis would probably accept us. And they even had a full annex in the operation plan for capitulation.
MATTHEWS: What bozo thought that? Who thought that and told that to the military, that that would be the case?
TRAINOR: This was largely the result of the intelligence community making …
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Was it from the intelligence community or was it from Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraq National Congress guy, talking to the civilians at the Defense Department and the vice president's office? Was it a political call, not an analytical assessment?
TRAINOR: No, I think it was an intelligence, analytical one. There's no question about Chalabi was able to influence the secretary of defense and those around him and kind of give them reassurance, but the intelligence community misread the situation. …
…
MATTHEWS: This is General Tommy Franks on this program talking about Secretary Rumsfeld's dealings with top generals like yourselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMMY FRANKS, GENERAL: I know very few military officers who ever have had given him a briefing or given him information and had him immediately say, “Oh gosh, that's a great idea. I really love that.” That's not the way Don Rumsfeld does business.
And so from that point of view, the point of view of a guy who is a pretty successful civilian CEO, a pretty successful secretary of defense, at a time when our country is at war, he steps up and he puts people through their paces.
It is not a thing that very many people who have spent the last 30 years of their life having people listen to them, I'm talking about the generals, it's a pretty hard thing to sit there and find yourself in a pretty serious hardball dialogue with a senior civilian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: When our civilians at the Defense Department put together the battle plan to go into Iraq, they were thinking — what — they were thinking that the people were going to greet us with open arms as liberators, they were going to help take over their own country quickly. There wasn't going to be an insurgency.
What was the reality that you were addressed with when you went in there?
LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR (RET.), NBC MILITARY ANALYST: That's exactly right. The military went in there under the assumption that the center of gravity, the military target, was going to be the Republican Guard. We'd fire tanks and artillery, put airplanes on them, and that the political center of gravity was going to be Baghdad, and that the Shiites in the south were going to welcome us. And the Sunnis would probably accept us. And they even had a full annex in the operation plan for capitulation.
MATTHEWS: What bozo thought that? Who thought that and told that to the military, that that would be the case?
TRAINOR: This was largely the result of the intelligence community making …
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Was it from the intelligence community or was it from Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraq National Congress guy, talking to the civilians at the Defense Department and the vice president's office? Was it a political call, not an analytical assessment?
TRAINOR: No, I think it was an intelligence, analytical one. There's no question about Chalabi was able to influence the secretary of defense and those around him and kind of give them reassurance, but the intelligence community misread the situation. …
…
MATTHEWS: This is General Tommy Franks on this program talking about Secretary Rumsfeld's dealings with top generals like yourselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMMY FRANKS, GENERAL: I know very few military officers who ever have had given him a briefing or given him information and had him immediately say, “Oh gosh, that's a great idea. I really love that.” That's not the way Don Rumsfeld does business.
And so from that point of view, the point of view of a guy who is a pretty successful civilian CEO, a pretty successful secretary of defense, at a time when our country is at war, he steps up and he puts people through their paces.
It is not a thing that very many people who have spent the last 30 years of their life having people listen to them, I'm talking about the generals, it's a pretty hard thing to sit there and find yourself in a pretty serious hardball dialogue with a senior civilian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Labels: Donald Rumsfeld
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